The most talented Russian tennis player, owner of real estate in Monte Carlo and unique charm Marat Safin told ProSport about balancing hard-earned victories in Davis Cup and his hatred for routine.
最具天份﹐擁有蒙特卡羅房產及獨特魅力的俄羅斯網球手薩芬跟PROSPORT 雜誌分享﹐他在辛苦終年換來的DAVIS CUP 勝利和痛恨歷行公事般生活中如何求得平衡的心境。
-I think that despite all your professional successes, especially the most recent one, you hardly ever strike anyone as a person, who is ready to sacrifice everything for a sport, for victory.
How can you think about the same thing 24 hours a day? I can’t, I’d go mad. I got lucky in life: I have terrific friends. I love life.
-我認為即便你職業生涯中有不凡的成就﹐尤其是最近這一次(06DAVIS CUP 冠軍)﹐你不太可能會為了勝利去犧牲一切的
MS 你怎麼可能24小時都在想網球這件事呢。我沒辦法﹐會瘋掉的。我覺得自己很幸運﹐有很知心的朋友﹐而我也熱愛生命。
- Strange. In one of your interviews I read that you said we don’t have so many good players nowadays in the country, and all because of their love to entertainment.
It is impossible to become a good tennis player in Russian province: there are no decent courts, no equipment, coaches, hitting partners. So they try to come to Moscow and find their tennis happiness and Moscow spoils them. It is practically impossible to live in Moscow and only think of professional sport: there are too many distractions here. We have a beautiful life here, parties, everyone lives to the maximum. And unfortunately kids “get broken” – too many sugary things they can’t say no to at their age. So they start thinking of excuses for their behaviour: a coach is not good enough, this is bad and that is not good. In reality all they want is to live a beautiful life and that will is normal. But in order to achieve something in sport – you need to sacrifice a lot.
-嗯那就奇怪了。你在某個專訪提到﹐我們(俄國)現今缺乏優秀的球員﹐原因是他們太熱衷於享樂了。
MS 在俄羅斯要成為優秀的球員幾乎是不可能的﹐我們沒有像樣的球場﹑設備簡陋﹑也缺乏教練及練習的對象。他們遠道而來至莫斯科追逐網球之夢﹐然而莫斯科卻使他們沉淪。在莫斯科﹐你不可能只專注在職業運動﹐實在有太多誘惑令人分心 了。我們在這裡過得快活﹐大家忙著PARTY﹐享樂到極致的程度﹐而不幸地﹐小孩們在這樣年紀無法抗拒這些﹐因此一個個墮落不振﹐他們便開始為自己找藉口﹐教練不好﹑這個不喜歡那個又差勁的。事實上他們只想玩樂﹐而這種想法是正常可以理解的。然而如果想在運動這行業有所成就﹐你必定要犧牲很多。
- So how did you resist all those temptations when you were young? What did you have to sacrifice?
I didn’t study tennis here, I left for Spain when I was fourteen and spent 8 years there. I made a huge sacrifice back then. I was literally grabbed by the hand and taken abroad – and thank God that happened. It was my parents’ decision. I had no money, I mean our family had no money – but they found a sponsor for me. I couldn’t really object to anything. You can say they gave me a ticket to life and I couldn’t flush that chance down the drain. No way. No how. I absolutely did not like the life I had as a little boy in Moscow.
-所以當你年輕時你如何抗拒這些誘惑? 你又犧牲了什麼
MS 我不在這裡學習網球﹐14歲便遠赴西班牙取經在那裡待了八年。那時候我的確犧牲很大﹐幾乎是趕鴉子上架被硬帶出國的﹐而感謝上帝﹐我成行了。那是父母的決定.....我沒錢﹐我意思是家裡貧窮﹐但他們為我找到贊助者。那個時候我沒能力去拒絕任何安排﹐父母給我一張通往美好未來的門票﹐我能讓它白白溜走﹐不可以的﹐不可能。我痛恨在莫斯科小時候的生活。
-What life did you lead back then?
A sad life of a middle class of the first half of 1990s, hopeless.
-你那時過什麼樣的生活
MS 1990年前期悲哀的中產階級生活﹐絕望的人生。
-But you were playing your favourite sport back then already!
You do not earn money when you are 14. Sad life of a middle class is about my parents. My Mum was a coach earning 200 rubles a month and my Dad was an administrator of one of a tennis courts for 400 rubles a month, that’s nothing especially considering two children in the family. So you do the maths, here is why it is hopeless. And nothing realistic was on my horizon at that point in time. And here comes someone who is spending 300 thousand on me, can you imagine? 300 thousand in the 1990s! You could buy out a part of Rublevka (a very posh region on the outskirts of Moscow now) for that money!
-但那時候你已經開始接觸自己喜歡的運動啦
MS 14歲時你還沒開始賺錢。我說的悲哀的中產階級生活是指我父母親。我媽媽一個月薪水200盧布﹐爸爸管理網球俱樂部一個月掙400盧布﹐對有兩個小孩的家庭來說是很吃緊的。你用基本數學算一算就知道我為什麼稱之為絕望的人生﹐而當時我也看不到自己的未來。突然間﹐有人願意給我30萬美金﹐你能想像嗎? 1990年代的30萬美金!! 那比金額可以買下一大片俄羅斯高級區域 (Rublevka)的土地呢!!
-Have you ever thought of what would have happened to you if you hadn’t left?
I don’t even want to think about it because it’s scary. Now times are different: some people have money, some don’t but still young and talented sportsmen have more chances to find a sponsor, many more chances.
-你想過如果你沒去西班牙會變成什麼樣子嗎
MS 我不敢想﹐真的很可怕。現在時機不同了﹐有些人有錢﹐有些人沒有﹐不過年輕的天才運動員較有贊助的機會﹐比以前多多了。
-Does a Russian tennis player differ from a western one? Is the mentality different? Do they have a different way of resisting temptations?
Why should he be any different? I can just give characteristics of different nations in tennis. Americans for example, are very euphoric: if things are going well then they’re going well, if not – they have absolutely no idea what to do on court. Frenchmen are super talented people and are very flashy. And they are very vain, which helps them generally. Italians can’t play well only because all their attention is somewhere else. There are no great Italian players, there were in the past but not now. Italians are a totally different story: they are a talented nation and it’s always hard to understand talented people. German players – they are the type of people who do not see anything around them. It’s all very direct for them, all within certain frameworks and it makes them so stiff, they can never relax 100%. But in order to play good tennis your mental outlook needs to be broader. They are like horses in blinders.
-俄羅斯球員跟西方國家不一樣嗎。心態不同? 他們杜絕誘惑有特別的本事嗎
MS 為什麼會不一樣呢?我頂多能列舉不同國家球員的特質。美國人﹐總是樂觀愉快 :事情順利他們也跟著順利﹐如果不順﹐他們在場上便手足無措。法國人超有天賦且非常耀眼﹔他們自尊心很強﹐這對比賽或多或少有幫助。義大利人總打不好﹐只因他們心不在此﹔現代沒有優異的義大利選手﹐過去曾經有的﹐但現在真的沒有。義大利人是個特殊的例子﹐他們全是上帝的寵兒﹐聰明的天才﹐我們凡人總不懂天才在想什麼。德國人呢﹐他們對周圍的事物視若不見﹐他們目標非常明確﹐在固定的架構下運行﹐這使得他們很彆扭僵硬﹐無法100%放鬆﹐但要打好網球﹐你的眼界應該寬一些﹐他們常像是帶著眼罩的馬﹐不停地往前衝似的。
-What about the Russians?
The Russians? We had amazing players: Chesnokov, Zhenya Kafelnikov. But in those days we had no opportunity to freely travel around. 90% of geniuses remained here and melted without a trace.
-那俄羅斯人呢
MS 俄羅斯人? 我們有偉大的球員呀﹐像Chesnokov, Kafelnikov。不過那段期間球員不能完全自由旅行世界各地。百分之九十的天才留在國內﹐消聲匿跡。
-Asking about the differences I was trying to figure out why do many Russian sportsmen when going abroad quickly vanish. Is big money the problem?
OK, let’s look at this from a football point of view because I am a huge football fan. First of all in order to “shine” anywhere like Italy, Spain or Germany you have to be a good player. I think the best player we had was Alexander Mostovoy. Sasha was an a-ma-zing player, first class. Unfortunately there’s noone like him for now. Before the used to buy stars like Sasha abroad for really cheap and pay them a miserable wage, it was impossible to earn money in Russian sport at that point in time, that’s why our guys all headed west. I think they didn’t vanish due to money, but because of a certain game level. Russia is not a football nation.
-問到各國球員的不同﹐我從中想去理解為什麼俄羅斯球員出國後就常不見了。因為巨額收入的關係嗎
MS OK﹐我們從足球的角度來看吧﹐因為我是個足球迷。首先﹐如果你要在義大利﹑西班牙或德國立足發光﹐你非得是個頂尖球員不可。我認為我們過去最偉大的足球員是Alexander Mostovoy。 他真的是個不-可-思-議的球員﹐世界一流的﹐但不幸地﹐現在都沒有這樣的人物了。以前他們(外國)總會來挖角像Mostovoy這樣的明星﹐付三流的薪水﹐因為在俄羅斯那時運動員幾乎沒有收入來源﹐所以他們只好往西前進。我不認為他們為了巨資而消失﹐而是因為國內比賽的水平緣故。俄羅斯不是個足球盛行的國家。
- Maybe the thing is that individual sports like tennis are much more developed in Russia nowadays than the team ones, maybe due to some social or even political reasons?
Why? Look at our girls who because World Champions in volleyball. Ok, let’s take football again. To put it bluntly we have too many individuals and they are very hard to control and coach. And this is not just the problem of our football, but of all team sports. “Barcelona” for example is a team whose coach managed to gather everyone together into one group, and look at “Real” – so many stars and they can’t do anything.
-在俄羅斯﹐個人運動如網球比團體運動如足球更澎勃發展﹐也許是因為社會或政治因素?
MS 為什麼你這麼說呢。看看我們得國際冠軍的排球女孩們! OK ﹐我們再回到足球來說吧。講白點﹐我們有太多球員﹐要管理和教育訓練都不容易。這不單是足球的問題﹐而是所有團體運動的問題。 舉例來說 "巴塞隆那"隊的教練很有本事地管理球員塑造向心力﹐而看看 "Real"﹐他們球星很多﹐但卻是一盤散沙。
-I don’t know where Russian female tennis players entertain themselves but it looks like nowhere. Dementieva, Myskina, Sharapova seem to have goals different from yours, they seem to be totally focused on tennis. Why is that?
It’s true, they don’t get out much. At least I never meet them anywhere in Moscow. Everyone has his own philosophy and goals. A man and a woman are two various sexes, it’s not accidental that there is an expression “opposite sexes”. For Dementieva, Myskina, Sharapova tennis is business, it’s work, and it’s big money, huge money. They feel totally independent, self-made women, they don’t have to report to anyone, they can afford to buy an apartment, can drive any car they want.
-我們俄羅斯女網選手都在哪兒玩樂﹐我怎麼都沒看過。戴娃﹑米娜﹑莎娃跟你的目標似乎不太相同﹐她們很專心在網球事業上。為什麼?
MS 這是事實﹐她們很少出去。至少﹐我不曾在莫斯科某處巧遇到她們。每個人都有自己的信念和目標﹐而男人跟女人本來就很不一樣﹐所謂的 "相對的性別論"並非莫虛有之談。對她們三位來說﹐網球是事業﹐是工作﹐也能為自己賺進財富。她們離群索居﹐成為自給自足獨立的女性﹐不需要跟別人報告進度行蹤﹐自己有能力買房子﹐想開什車就開什麼車。
-But Kournikova was different: she was independent but not totally consumed by tennis.
Kournikova went into another extreme – started doing too many photoshoots and had too many distracting factors in her life. And she didn’t have anyone in her life that would point her in the right direction.
-但庫娃不一樣呀: 她也很獨立﹐可是卻沒有全神投注在網球上
MS 庫娃是另一個極端-開始拍攝過多商業照片﹐生活上擾亂﹑分心的因素太多﹐而也沒有一個人在身邊告訴她要往什麼方向走才好。
-So she’s like the victim of 1990s?
Well those were different times, girls had a hard life. But she was the first one to become a real star. Mega star! She did a huge PR for tennis – she is still an idol in the States. So she’s not really a victim – she feels great nowadays, earned tons of money. And she didn’t achieve more in tennis probably because she overdid it when she was a kid. Maybe she was just tired. I remember her practising on the court next to mine. Once you become a professional and start earning money you have to automatically understand that you have to make sacrifices and all these parties and gatherings won’t do you any good. When I come to Moscow I can afford going to parties and restaurants. Once I am on the road for two-three months – there is no time for fun. I get up in the morning – go to courts, come back in the evening, have dinner, massage and sleep. And you live with this schedule for months, can you imagine? Of course you come here to Moscow after all that and you want to see new things, visit new places, look at people. That’s how I like to spend my free time – I like parties, take pleasure in them. Why not?
-所以她是1990年代的犧牲品囉
MS 那是不同的年代﹐女孩們生活艱困﹐她是第一位真正出名的明星﹐超級大明星喔。在網球上﹐她的公關貢獻無庸置疑﹐在美國仍是個偶像﹐所以她不覺得自己是受害者吧﹐對現狀滿意﹐賺進大把鈔票。她沒能在網球上更進一步﹐或許在童年時她努力過度了﹐累了。我記得小時候她在我隔壁球場練習。一旦轉為職業球員開始賺錢之後﹐自己要警覺有些事非得犧牲不可﹐PARTY和聚會對你都沒有好處。當我回來莫斯科時﹐我可以去PARTY和餐廳玩玩﹐但是當我開始巡迴兩三個月時﹐我毫無時間玩樂。早上起床﹐去球場﹐下午回到旅館﹐吃晚餐﹐按摩然後睡覺﹐日復一日。而你要如此規律﹑無聊地連過好幾個月﹐你可否想像是怎樣的生活? 當然在一切結束之後﹐你最後想回到莫斯科﹐看看新鮮事物﹑逛新奇的地方﹑看看老朋友。我喜歡這樣消磨閒暇的時間﹐我喜歡去PARTY﹐盡情放鬆享樂。有何不可?
-Does glamorous life in Moscow seem better in Moscow than in Monte Carlo where you have a house? Or than in London?
All that glamour is not for me, I couldn’t care less: who is where and when and with whom. I really couldn’t care less. I live my life, I don’t read the papers and I don’t even watch TV. There are so many new names in the society: this one is that and that one is this and I have no idea who these people are. I also like watching movies. Spike Lee’s movies are absolutely great, watched “25th Hour”, excellent movie. Edward Norton looks like such a great person. When I saw Norton for the first time, I thought wow, what a dude, I even read somewhere that he speaks Japanese. He is a cult himself! I really like him. Funny: you don’t even know the guy but you like him already.
-莫斯科的玩樂似乎比你有棟房子的蒙特卡羅還奢華精彩? 也許更甚於倫敦?
MS 光鮮亮麗不是我要的東西﹐我不在乎:誰在哪裡﹐何時﹑跟誰出去等.....我真的不屑這些。我過自己的日子﹐我既不讀報紙也不看電視。社會上有很多新面孔﹐這人是誰那人幹嘛﹐我都搞不清楚。我喜歡看電影﹐Spike Lee's的電影很棒﹐剛看完一部精彩的 "25th Hour"。愛德華諾頓看起就不是簡單人物﹐當我第一次看他的電影﹐我心想﹐WOW﹐這傢伙實在了得﹐甚至聽說他還會講日文呢。他像是宗教領袖擁有信徒般的力量!! 我很喜歡他。有趣吧: 你對這個人其實不甚瞭解﹐但你已經真心喜歡他了。
-They call “Chelsea” an English team because it is physically located in the UK, but the owner in Russian and players have been gathered from all over the world. I do not know what “Chelsea” players feel, meaning what are they playing for, which country. But you personally, what are you playing for?
I really love and respect Russia. I feel very proud when someone says something good about Russia. Russia is greatly respected abroad, when someone hears you’re from Russian they do “Oooo!”
-他們稱 "Chelsea"英國隊﹐因為他地處英國﹐但是老板是俄羅斯人﹐而球員來自世界各地。我不懂"Chelsea"的球員是什麼感覺﹐他們是為哪一國而戰呢。而你個人又是怎樣?
我真心熱愛尊敬自己的國家﹐當有人稱贊俄羅斯時我覺得無上光榮。在外國﹐俄羅斯是很受敬重的﹐當人家聽到你來自俄羅斯時﹐都不免發出"鳴~~~~~!!" 的驚嘆。
-Who respects Russia? If you read foreign press, things are actually totally opposite.
I claim with full responsibility: we are respected in the west, have no doubt about it. We are respected like noone else in this world. I think you might be underestimating our country. Maybe you never lived in Germany but I did, lived in Spain, in the States, I live in Monte Carlo. We have the most promising, the largest country with huge possibilities, huge talents. There isn’t any other country in the world… How could anyone compare our country to let’s say America? What are you comparing it with? Look at our country, at the history, culture, people! Yes, I play for Russia because I love it and I love all the flaws that come with it.
-果真如此?誰敬重俄羅斯呢?假如你讀過外國報導﹐很多都是負面的呀
MS 我對自己所說的一切負完全責任:在西方我們是受到敬重的﹐不用懷疑。我們比任何國家的人都還要有地位。你或多或少瞭解我們這個國家﹐但你可能沒住過德國﹑西班牙﹑美國或蒙特卡羅﹐但我有親身經驗。我們是個前膽﹑潛力無限的國家﹐天賦異秉...沒有其他國家是如此的....你怎麼拿﹐好比美國﹐跟俄羅斯比較呢?你要比較什麼?看看我們的國家擁有悠久的歷史﹑文化﹑人文。沒錯﹐我為俄羅斯而戰﹐因為我深愛這個國家的一切。
-You talk of Russia as a foreigner who’s been taken to Moscow nightclubs and posh restaurants. Russia is also a very poor country.
How about sitting in New York in Cipriani on the terrace outside and a homeless person comes up to you and starts begging for money? They have problems there too. And by the way, just so you understand, there homeless people have where to go – they have special shelters. It’s just that he doesn’t want to go there, he wants to feel homeless, might actually get a kick out of it deep down inside. If you have no friends and you have nowhere to go and you don’t want to go anywhere – there is something very wrong with you.
-你談起來像是一個外國人來俄羅斯觀光﹐只看到閃亮的夜店及高級的餐館。俄羅斯也是個貧窮的國家呀
那麼你坐在紐約的 Cipriani 陽台上往外看吧﹐流浪漢過來跟你討錢。他們也有他們的問題。順道一提﹐那邊的流浪漢是有庇護所可住的﹐但是他們卻不願住進去﹐寧願在街上晃蕩﹐也許表面上看不出來﹐但他們心裡深處真的享受流浪的感覺。我認為﹐如果你沒有朋友﹑無家可歸﹐也不想去哪裡遮風避雨﹐你一定是哪裡出了大問題。
-Tennis career is a life which was chosen for you by your parents. Does this thought pressure you in any way? Don’t you have thoughts like you should be thinking of something yourself, something radical and new?
You mean think for the future? Are you on about my pension after 30?
-網球是父母為你選擇的職業﹐這個想法給你壓力嗎? 可曾想過你或許想從事他行﹐一些完全不同或較新潮的東西?
MS 你是指未來嗎? 你要付我30歲後的退休金?
-Too painful of a topic?
No, not really. There is only one life but for a sportsman it is divided into various stages. The first stage is when you play and play but this stage will end sooner or later and I understand that well. Then a totally different life will start. I will most probably remain somewhere not too far from tennis – this is something I know about and am good at, it’s something that was given to me by God. My ambitions are quite Napoleonic but you have to realistically value your abilities: what is it that you are in this world and how useful can you be for other people. The problem of many people is that they overestimate themselves, put themselves a bit higher than they are in reality. You cannot do that, this is a straight road to a disappointment in yourself, followed by depression.
-這個話題太傷感了嗎
MS 不會的。生命只有一回﹐不過運動員的生命歷經好幾個階段。一開始你只是玩阿玩的﹐但早晚這時期會結束﹐我對這再清楚不過。之後﹐一個不同的生活開始-我大概從事網球相關事業吧﹐因為這是我懂的也在行的﹐這是上帝恩賜的能力。我的野心其實像拿破崙一般想征服世界﹐只是你也要客觀根據自己的實力評估 :你在這世上扮演什麼角色﹐你能有什麼貢獻。很多人的問題在於他們高估自己﹐把自己想像得比實際上還要偉大。不行的﹐你等於走向失望之路﹐最後整個人絕望沮喪。
-What else would you like to achieve?
What else, what else… The thing is: you rush to tell everyone about something beforehand and it will never come true. I do not want to lose what I have planned so I am not going to tell you anything. Some time ago I was feeling so confident, was feeling like noone could beat me in this world, it all went so well, so wonderful. When you are number one in the world you are full of strength and confidence, it is such an amazing feeling. Euphoria! Now the situation has changed. How old am I? Twenty six. I have won quite a lot. Maybe my career didn’t go as well as I wanted it to due to two serious injuries. But now I am truly enjoying the fact that after all of this I managed to come back and continue playing on a high level.
-還有什麼想成就的嗎
MS 還有什麼﹐還有什麼咧......問題是﹐你急忙召告世人﹐結果無法兌現自己的諾言。我已經規畫好的東西我不想失去﹐因此我無可奉告。有一陣子﹐我自己覺得信心滿滿﹐好像世界無敵一樣﹐所有都進行得很順遂﹑美好。當你是世界第一時﹐你滿腔抱負願景和自信﹐那真是筆墨難以形容的感覺。你完全陶醉在其中!!! 現在都事過境遷了。看看我幾歲了? 26 。我贏了不少﹐也許如果沒有那些傷病我會如自己期望的更有成就。不過此刻﹐我很高興在風風雨雨之後﹐還是克服一切復出了﹐持續打著高質量的球賽。
-During Kremlin Cup you did a blog on the internet – was that a forced measure or you volunteered to do it?
Well, they asked me to do it. I am a person that is very far from the internet. And I am not a writer to write memoirs.
-在克杯時你在網路上做了一星期BLOG-有人逼你嗎﹐還是你自願的
MS 嗯﹐他們要我做的。我是不太上網的人﹐也不善於寫傳記或日記。
